Forgive as We've Been Forgiven, Hymn 183, (2016/10/10)

Hymn 183, Forgive as we have been forgiven Posted 10/10/16

Originally posted under a different Blog category (I've made too many because I didn't know what I was doing!)

Hmm 183

Forgive as we've been forgiven

Related to target rings" mirror image of our own faults'

As we face and work through ours, then they resolve, and we no longer resent the other with the same target ring. 

If we don't, we keep resenting them and ours stays active

The concept described in more detail. 

Sunday as we sang the sacrament hymn, I saw a big gospel /GNM connection. I
realize that hymns are not solid doctrine always,  but they are close and based off doctrine. 

So the hymn sung today was hymn 183.

One line says :

"Forgive as we've been forgiven"

Related to target rings and to my paradigm that the things that bother us in others are a "mirror image of our own faults".

As we use those irritations about others to identify our own defects, and as we face and work through them, our target rings resolve, and we are free from the burden of the pain-which often leads us to feelings and behavior which separate us from Christ-like behavior and therefore create a larger separation between us and Christ himself. That can be (loosely) defined as sin because it separates us from Christ.

When we no longer labor under that burden because we resolve the target ring, and are free from it (just like being forgiven), the same "reflective faults" of others no longer bother us and we no longer resent others with the same target ring: i.e. we forgive them.  That is how it patterns after "forgive as we are forgiven" 

If we don't work through ours, we keep resenting and blaming others with these same reflective faults, behaviors, attitudes or target rings.  0ur target rings stay active/ we remain in the behavior and patterns separating us from Christ and we remain in our unrepentant and thus un-forgiven state of "sin".
 

Forgive as we've been forgiven, or as we repent we can forgive others.

Just what struck me.

Forgiving by the Numbers (2017/07/24)

RANDOM THOUGHTS
After Temple Pagent rehersal at age 16, my sister was late picking me up by 45 min or maybe an hour or more. I wasn’t angry, which was unusual. My family had the pattern of being perturbed if someone were to have forgotten us and made us wait so long. But I wasn’t angry because I was so influenced by the Spirit right then because of the very spiritual environment I had just left - reherasl for the Oakland Temple Pagent. How to duplicate that non-angry state and forgiving state was a quest after that, but not one I easily got my fingers into for many years.

A year or so ago, I was asked to give a Relief Society lesson  based on the talk by Elder Kevin R Ducan of the Seventy.  Here is my lesson and the summary of how I fulfilled my quest above.

But first, think of the person who has done the worst offense to you in your whole life, or the offense you still struggle with. How will you feel when you see them in the Celestial Kingdom?

THE HEALING OINTMENT OF FORGIVENESS

The Healing Ointment of Forgiveness by Elder Kevin R Duncan of the Seventy 
We all get offended because it is an imperfect world full of darkness and confusion, and I will add: and a bunch of imperfect people. Why do we get offended?

GETTING OFFENDED
Is it worth discussing why we get offended? I expect we deserve to be treated differently? Are we above others’ being imperfect towards us? Do we expect trust that is then broken?
(I read a post of someone on FaceBook saying they are tired of criticisms on FB. They said ‘I’m sick and tired of it.” I thought, “and who are you? Why do we care what you think or are tired of?” )

My montra: my irritations of others are a reflection of my own undesired behavior.
The more brutal question is, are we justified in getting offended? Are we above anyone being rude to us?
Even Christ suffered through that and was not offended, nor acted spiteful, etc. (but save that for later) So, what do we do?

SOFTEN OUR HEARTS
Elder Duncan has a story of Silver and gives an interesting analogy that the hardness of our heart is what prevents us from letting go of our desire for justice or revenge. It is what prevents us from allowing others to make and correct mistakes. Hard hearts prevent us from forgiving.

What is a hard heart? Does it boil down to selfish? An egocentric only viewpoint? What defines a hard heart? Soften our hearts from what?

JUSTICE
Wanting Justice I’m convinced that most of us want to forgive, but we find it very hard to do. When we have experienced an injustice, we may be quick to say, “That person did wrong. They deserve punishment. “  HOLD THAT THOUGHT--I have multiple-part comments for this section of his talk, so I’ll address it last.

TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT
Elder Duncan affirms that injuries will be made up for. As victims, if we are faithful, we can take great comfort in knowing that God will compensate us for every injustice we experience.
This is part of the sense of fairness.

I’ve often wondered about this. I’ve been hurt, betrayed, damaged, etc. What if I say my spouse ran out on me, my parents abused me, my siblings robbed me, my neighbors rejected me, etc. So when I die, I’ll have happy marriage, good relations, etc. 

But everyone else will also . . . so how does that make up for my injuries? Will I have a bigger mansion in heaven? Will I have more servants? More angels attending me? My Mom- my Dad yelled and blamed her a lot. So, how will that be made up for? He’ll be sweet and nice – which is what he would be if he had been sweet and nice here.

This question is based on the premise that to make up for my injuries of receiving less of the good stuff or too much of the bad stuff, I have to later receive more good stuff than someone else. That is a false premise.

The only thing that makes sense to me of how it will be made up for is the sweetness of the glory we will experience will make our previous injuries irrelevant. We will see it all in a perspective of how we grew from the experiences and be overwhelmed with gratitude to Jesus Christ for the possibility.

Next is the bigger view.

SEE OTHERS AS GOD DOES
Quote from his talk: "As we strive to forgive others, let us also try to remember that we are all growing spiritually, but we are all at different levels."
Another quote from the talk:" Can you imagine how our families, our communities, and the world at large might change if we all tried to see each other as God sees us?"

So I ask: how and why does understanding another’s viewpoint or reasoning help us have compassion for them?

It helps us depersonalize it - that is depersonalize the idea that the offense is about us. Their behavior is about themselves, not about us.

Elder Duncan also says: "To forgive is not to condone. We do not rationalize bad behavior or allow others to mistreat us because of their struggles or pains or weaknesses".

We must understand that this does not justify not forgiving. Those two can be difficult to merge, and we’ll talk about that … soon.

I'm posting a conversation under an article on FB article titled “Why didn’t Nephi throw Laman & Lemuel off the ship.?”
ME: I didn't read this yet, but the title made me LOL.
SOMEONE: Same here! My first thought is "He probably wanted to."
ME: Ha ha ha. I kind of think he was more pure hearted than that, but most everyone else on the ship was thinking that. Maybe they were thinking, "why did they have to come, any way. " But that attitude may be a modern convention not common to their culture. Ha ha ha.
SOMEONE ELSE: it seems to me the reason he didn't is he was all tied up LOL
ANOTHER SOMEONE: After laughing at the title my husband came up with a good reason, it would be murder.
ME: The reason is likely in 1 Ne 2: 16-24, noticing vs 18 (Nephi's attitude) and vs 24 (why Nephi needed them for his descendants). Maybe I should open the article and see what it says.
OK. So I read the article. It is nice, and nice and short (i.e. easy and quick to read). I especially like #2 reason-He is as patient with helping them choose the correct path as he is with us. That is the pulse of the reason our Father in Heaven didn't push them (or us) off the side of the boat.

SEEING OTHER'S VIEWPOINTS
Seeing other’s viewpoints helps us in understanding others and helps us forgive them. 3 possible ways it helps:
1. Their motivation
    a. accidental
    b. ignorance
    c. have they apologized/changed/repented?
    d. intentional

2. Their good and bad

3. Their paradigm differences from ours and our own view

FORGIVE TO BE FORGIVEN
Elder Duncan reminds us that just as we are all victims to the misdeeds of others at one time or another, we are also sometimes the offender…We must remember that forgiveness of our own sins and offenses is conditioned upon our forgiving others….
Matt 6: 14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Think about this for a minute:
Is it tit for tat? Is there a checklist for how many offenses we have forgiven compared to how many offenses we have given, and if it is uneven not in our favor, too bad for us?

Or is it that if we are of a character to not be forgiving to others, we are likely also to be of a character that we are not fully repentant as well?

Is our forgiving nature actually a measuring stick of our repentant nature?

Are they 2 sides of the same coin? Think about this pointed question:
Is forgiving a process of repenting for retaining anger and resentment? So if we don’t forgive, we have not purified our hearts and have not repented for our unChrist-like emotions.

Could someone have offended us so reprehensibly that it is worth us losing our exaltation over it by not forgiving them? (don’t answer out loud please, just think about it)

WHY JUSTICE
Why do humans want justice so much? Is it innate? Is it just a canal nature? (This is a trick question.)

I believe it is part of OUR DIVINE NATURE that senses that justice is required to keep all things in existence balanced, that justice is divine, and that God demands justice.

If we are led by the Spirit of Christ, we also feel the divine nature of mercy, and we combine the two.

If we are not led by the Spirit of Christ, we hold on to the idea of justice and we may be led down the path of desiring revenge. Revenge is the Satanic version of justice.

But judgement is God’s. DC 64: (3-)11
3There are those among you who have sinned; but verily I say, for this once, for mine own glory, and for the salvation of souls, I have forgiven you your sins.
4 I will be merciful unto you, for I have given unto you the kingdom.
5 And the keys of the mysteries of the kingdom shall not be taken from my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., through the means I have appointed, while he liveth, inasmuch as he obeyeth mine ordinances.
6 There are those who have sought occasion against him without cause;
7 Nevertheless, he has sinned; but verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, forgive sins unto those who confess their sins before me and ask forgiveness, who have not sinned unto death.
8 My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened.
9 Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.
10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.
11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.

Verse 11: And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
I have known others, and have felt myself, that this verse means: OK. I’ll let God judge. And you’ll be sorry. You’ll get your punishment. You just wait and see. You’ll be sorry! Your’re gonna get it!

That is not what it is supposed to mean.

So, I want to spend a minute and break down the forgiving response to the sense of justice when we take into account our understanding of other’s motives.(accident, ignorance, apologetic, intentional) in the "Seeing other’s viewpoints, #1" section.
a. Accidental : easy to forgive – they didn’t mean to do it.---Easy
b. Ignorance: Same as ‘a.’ They didn’t understand the impact their actions would have. --Easy
c. If they say they are sorry and change: Easy
But what if their offense was:
d. Intentional or they don’t say they are sorry and they don’t regret it nor change: much harder.

I want to reemphasize: To forgive is not to condone. We do not rationalize bad behavior or allow others to mistreat us because of their struggles or pains or weaknesses.

3 stories:
i. Forgive the correct person for the correct thing.
In an important project I did I had an associate who was always whining and complaining about how things were done. So I ended up changing things to satisfy her or him (this anonymous person). The project went into disaster.
I was upset because the changes I instituted from their pressure – I was having a hard time forgiving them for that.
I couldn’t forgive myself letting them nag me.
Then I realized I was trying to forgive the wrong person for the wrong thing.
I had no control over their whining. So I could not forgive myself for that. I had to forgive them for that.
They didn’t make the decisions about the changes in project. That was me. So it was impossible to forgive them. It wasn’t their decision. It was my decision. I was accountable for that. I had to forgive myself.
Once I realized who was accountable for which part of my frustration, forgiveness was instantaneous.

ii. We can’t justify our ill behavior because theirs is worse:
I was counseling with a couple of patients as they went through difficult marriage issues. One had a husband who looked good on the outside, but was critical, demeaning, and selfish in their private life-but nothing so blatant that you could say ‘he is evil’. The other had a husband who was the same way to the public eye, but who was also addicted to online shopping, pornography, and having routing non-sexual but heart committed rendezvous with another woman. The first woman made a statement to the effect that at least the second woman could be justified in blaming her husband for all their problems and hating her husband because he was doing some obvious evil things. She stunned me when she replied, “Oh no! The Lord won’t let me get away with that!” Meaning, he doesn’t justify her harboring anger and resentment. He expected her to purify her soul as well.

iii. Story 3. This is my main point. I have had experiences where it was intentional and very painful. They felt justified. I felt they weren’t. That I struggled with. Then I was pondering the book of Enos. This is when I learned how to forgive (in 3 easy steps. Really.)

Enos 1:4-17
4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.
5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.
6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away. THIS IS STEP STEP ONE: GOD CANNOT LIE
7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?
8 And he said unto me: Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. And many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh; wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole.
9 Now, it came to pass that when I had heard these words I began to feel a desire for the welfare of my brethren, the Nephites; wherefore, I did pour out my whole soul unto God for them.
10 And while I was thus struggling in the spirit, behold, the voice of the Lord came into my mind again, saying: I will visit thy brethren according to their diligence in keeping my commandments. I have given unto them this land, and it is a holy land; and I curse it not save it be for the cause of iniquity; wherefore, I will visit thy brethren according as I have said; and their transgressions will I bring down with sorrow upon their own heads.

THIS IS STEP TWO: GOD IS FAIR if they are righteous, he will bless them; if they are not, he will bring them sorrow
11 And after I, Enos, had heard these words, my faith began to be unshaken in the Lord; and I prayed unto him with many long strugglings for my brethren, the Lamanites.
12 And it came to pass that after I had prayed and labored with all diligence, the Lord said unto me: I will grant unto thee according to thy desires, because of thy faith.
13 And now behold, this was the desire which I desired of him—that if it should so be, that my people, the Nephites, should fall into transgression, and by any means be destroyed, and the Lamanites should not be destroyed, that the Lord God would preserve a record of my people, the Nephites; even if it so be by the power of his holy arm, that it (the record) might be brought forth at some future day unto the Lamanites, that, perhaps, they might be brought unto salvation—
14 For at the present our strugglings were vain in restoring them to the true faith. And they swore in their wrath that, if it were possible, they would destroy our records and us, and also all the traditions of our fathers.
NOTE: These are not strangers, boogie men, or the Communist Russians or an Islamic Terrorist, or a masked robber. These are Enos’ cousins, . . .the children of his uncles, Laman and Lemuel. They knew each other.
15 Wherefore, I knowing that the Lord God was able to preserve our records, I cried unto him continually, for he had said unto me: Whatsoever thing ye shall ask in faith, believing that ye shall receive in the name of Christ, ye shall receive it.
16 And I had faith, and I did cry unto God that he would preserve the records; and he covenanted with me that he would bring them forth unto the Lamanites in his own due time.
17 And I, Enos, knew it would be according to the covenant which he had made; wherefore my soul did rest.

THIS IS STEP THREE: GOD IS MERCIFUL
So, if
1. I know God CANNOT lie (not just will not, but can not – just like I CANNOT turn into a girraffe), and
2. I know he will be fair (if they don’t repent fully, they won’t get away with it, and he will know how thoroughly they repent and change), and also
3. He will be merciful to those who do repent
AND SO I can give to him now, before the judgement day, the decision making process of trying to figure out if someone has repented enough or not, and do they merit forgiveness. (letter ‘c’ above) be clear-it is his domain ONLY; but in my heart, it is mine to make sense of it, because of our divine nature that desires justice. So, now I can beFORE the judgement day, GIVE to him the decision making process. I can beFORe-GIVE it to him – I can “FOR-GIVE”.

I don’t have to figure it out. He is able to, and he will. I am free. My soul can rest, because 1) God cannot lie, 2) his is fair, and 3) he is merciful.

Now, re-meet your offender in the Celestial Kingdom. What do you feel now? Can you give the judgement to Christ, before the judgement day, even before the person repents? Can you give the entire evaluation process to Christ, today? 

IT IS THE PURPOSE OF CHRIST

(Summary Point)

Elder Duncan says, "Forgiveness is the very reason God sent his Son… We do not need to be a victim twice."
We are a victim the 1st time from the impact of others’ behavior.
We are a victim the 2nd time from the result of our unrepentant (therefore unforgiving attitude) causing our inability to receive the sanctification of the Savior’s atonement.

I am so grateful for the Savior’s atonement, the direction of the Holy Ghost, and for being able to repent, forgive, and be forgiven. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

It's All Proportional (2017/07/10)

This morning's scripture reading included Alma 38:5

And now my son, Shiblon, I would that ye should remember, that as much as ye shall put your trust in God even so much ye shall be delivered out of your trials, and your troubles, and your afflictions, and ye shall be lifted up at the last day.

The emphasis is in the middle of the verse;  as much as ye shall put your trust in God even so much ye shall be delivered

It is proportional.  As much as ...even so much

Do It Later (03/07/2017)

So I've got this opportunity which has come to me. At first the promptings of the Spirit said " no, but it is good to pursue it." Later I felt the Spirit give its blessing to the opportunity.

Yippee!

Then I get a very peaceful feeling about postponing the opportunity for a long time.   : (    

But I want to do it now.

I can understand all the -or rather- some of the currently apparent reasons for this Spiritually sanctioned delay.

I'm just not enthusiastic about it. (But don't worry, I'm following the Spirit's instructions.)

So after feeling pouty about it last night (all the while I am still going to follow the Spirit's instructions- it's apparent I want that clearly understood), this morning I read 1st Nephi 9. I come to verses 5 and 6 and my thoughts I wrote about them years earlier.

1st Nephi 9
5 Wherefore, the Lord hath commanded me to make these plates for a wise purpose in him, which purpose I know not.
6 But the Lord knoweth all things from the beginning; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men; for behold, he hath all power unto the fulfilling of all his words. And thus it is. Amen.

My notes:

1) he knows he was told to do something
2) a-he doesn't question why,
b-or discount it because he sees not its relevance,
c-or complain because it is extra work,
d-or try to find another way besides what he was told to do to accomplish what he feels the purpose is. etc. He doesn't murmur.
3) He understands the Lord is managing and coordinating all the events and details both now and those in the future.
4) He understands that no matter how difficult, complex, or opposed the process will be, it is not too hard for the Lord because the Lord has all power.

Verse 5 and my notes  #2c, 2d, and 3 are the most relevant to me right now.

I'm sure glad I've already committed to follow the Spirit's instructions.

A Little Fall of Rain -- A Little Rise of Faith (02/28/2017)

I watched Les Misuables (25th Anniversary Production) last week with a friend. Then I watched it again a few days later.

Stop there.

One needs to know that I watch films to study them. I study their craft- editing, acting, directing, screenplay, the skill at portraying the human soul and characteristics of human psychology, and so forth.

Back to my watching Les Mis.

The music is so powerful in that stage production. Different songs have been going through my mind on repeat since then. I've looked up on YouTube different videos of these performances.

The number that has climbed to the top of the 'can't get it out of my head' list is the song Eponine sings as she is dieing. It is going through my mind as I eat breakfast and as I pray.

"And you will keep me safe
and you will keep me warm
The rain will make the flowers grow."

Then my aha! happens.

Stop there.

One needs to know that I believe the mind is not broken when we have obsessive thoughts. I believe it is a conscious awareness of dilemmas the subconscious is working on resolving. The same applies to dreams. They are visions of the subconscious processing the day - unless they are heaven sourced revelatory dreams.

Back to my aha!.

There are currently some precarious situations looming in my near future that may have unpredictable influences to assure I'll be helpless and miserable.  I'm not fretting, or worrying, or whatever. I'm looking at it rather stoicly, actually. All the solutions I can imagine pretty much are scenarios that are closer to a fairy Godmother coming down from the sky with her magic wand than they are to any probable life event. Heavy sigh...

So as I am preparing to pray this morning, Eponine's words are singing through my head.

"Don't you fret, Monsuer Marias
I don't feel any pain
A little fall of rain
Can hardly hurt me now.

And as I pray, I hear and understand her words in a way that the Spirit whispers "That's why the song is going through your head. Your thoughts are confirming that you already know this."

The words are not Eponine singing to Marius. They are me singing to my Heavenly Father.

"And you will keep me safe
And you will keep me warm
The rain will make the flowers grow."

All the scary, unpredictable, disastrous, limiting and devastating (can I think of any more adjectives?!?) events that are present and offering to step into my life in the near future are simply drops of rain that my generous Father in Heaven will use to bless my life with the beauty and pleasant aroma of flowers.

The rain will make the flowers grow.

The 10 Virgin:s Oil (07/21/2015)

In Sunday School we were discussing the parable of the 10 virgins found in Matthew 25: 1-13.  At one point one gentleman asked the question, "Why did they word their refusal as they did?  They didn't say they were unable to share.  They said, "Not so, lest there not be enough for us and you."

We generally say their oil represented their testimony, and we cannot share our testimony in a way to create it in others.  So they couldn't give their testimony to the others who didn't have one. However, this doesn't fit as well to the idea of why they wouldn't share their oil.  They did not say they were unable to share it.  They said no, and that if they did there wouldn't be enough for the both of them.  This definitely implies that they had the capability to share it, but chose not to.

It cannot be considered a selfish thing for them not to share because they are the segment of the parable that did things correctly.  They are the wise virgins.

So the question he asked is very good.  What is it that they had the ability to share but did not, knowing that there would not be enough and then they both would have insufficient?

Tracy Smith suggested it could be analogous to when we agree with others and go along with their behavior or ideas that are not in line with a high gospel standard in order to avoid making them feel badly.  When we do this, we are actually lowering our standards down to meet theirs.  Then we both have behavior that is below the standard of conduct the Lord requires.  This seems closer to the function of the oil in the parable - a value system and behavior that can or cannot be shared or adapted to other's value systems.

It still feels a little awkward.  Perhaps if I explore it by saying that our oil is our standard of living the gospel.  When we compare our high standard to those with a lower standard, it does make them look not-so-good.  We must remember that we have been taught that all 10 virgins represent the membership of the church.  So we must suppose that these 5 foolish virgins are members of the church, not those in the world outside the church.

Another aspect to note is that the 5 foolish virgins had some oil.  Their lamps were burning all night.  The Greek translation of verse 8 changes it from "our lamps are gone out" to "our lamps are going out.". That makes a difference.  They had oil so they were burning their flame of testimony.  But waiting through the long night required more oil than what they had.  The footnotes in the LDS version of the King James Bible translation references the word 'procrastination.'

Procrastination refers to actions.  So the oil must be what we do, and that supplies us with the fuel that creates our testimony, or the flame.  What we do is a daily process, a lifestyle, that either gives us enough reserve oil to keep our testimony burning throughout a long wait, or not enough reserve oil to keep our testimony burning strongly through the entire night.   Our lifestyle is driven by and is a reflection of our standards, i.e. how we interpret the gospel and the commandments into our every day living activities.

So if we procrastinated in living the gospel strictly, we wouldn't have enough actions or standards of behavior, or lifestyle, that produced enough oil to take us until the bridegroom came at midnight.  If our flame in our lamp is our testimony, then our testimony will be beginning to wane when it is needed most.  No one walks in the bridal procession with a lamp that is dark.  The light in your lamp lets you see where to go.

In asking the 5 virgins to share their oil, it is asking them to lower their standard of living.

Is that the same from the viewpoint of the virgin with her lamp that was going out?  If they give of their oil, then all will each have the same amount of oil, and all will briefly have a flame.  But the wise realize it is not enough oil to sustain them.  Perhaps it will be easier for me to think of this if I put their analogy into context of before they are actually in the bridegroom processional.  The cry went out when he was 'coming', not when he was actually there.  So the oil is during the preparation time.  That meets better the criteria that the 5 wise were not willing to lower their standard of behavior so they all had the same standards and all had their flames burning.  They knew that standard of living would not give them enough testimony to last all the way to the marriage house.

So sharing their oil does match with the idea of lowering their standard of behavior to make them even with those whose lifestyle had not been at an appropriate level to produce sufficient oil.  They could have shared to be nice, to help those who didn't prepare with a higher standard of living.  Then they would have all had the same amount of oil, or lifestyle standard, and they all would have all looked as prepared as each other.  In reality, they all would have been ill prepared.

Later Janice Ware mentioned in a conversation she thinks people support the gay marriage issue so they won't make those members who are desiring it and promoting it feel badly.  They emphasize being inclusive and not exclusive, and loving verses shunning.  They feel it is a way to make sure they don't make those who deal with homosexual feelings feel like we are shunning, condemning, or rejecting them.  Truly, these are not Christ-like activities.

Being inclusive and loving is very important.  In fact, those are behaviors that add oil to our lamps.  However, we need to be inclusive to the people, not to the ideas that are a lower standard.  We need to love people, even those who struggle with ideas, commandments, or testimony.  Loving and embracing the ideologies they promote is not the same as loving, being kind to, and welcoming them.  We should, and hopefully do, always welcome anyone to worship with us, fellowship with us, and to partake of the gospel and redemption offered by Christ by making and keeping covenants to live the gospel.  Living the gospel is outlined to us by the commandments, which creates a lifestyle and a standard of living.  Everyone is welcome to embrace our standard of living and the blessings it brings.

If we promote their ideologies that are specifically contrary to the word of the Lord as clearly and plainly given to us by the living prophet of God today, we are lowering our oil to their standard.  We may lower our own standards, but we can't lower the standard required by the Lord.  We will only end up with "not enough for us and you."

That is what Tracy said.

Just a thought about Hell (02/20/2017)

I'm reading Moroni chapter 8. I came to verse 14.

14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.

I saw the last phrase which I had highlighted and a note I had written.

The highlighted phrase:

wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.

My note I wrote:

Go down to Hell is probably not a statement of their final destination. It describes the emotional suffering when they see the light and truth of things and compare it to their own attitudes and beliefs they clung to and refused to replace with charity.

Just my thoughts.